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	<title>Comments on: Community Management Education (and Certs) a Sound Investment &#8211;Yet Experience Trumps All</title>
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	<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/</link>
	<description>Jeremiah Owyang discusses how web tools and social media enable companies to connect with customers</description>
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		<title>By: what every social community manager should know</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1386549</link>
		<dc:creator>what every social community manager should know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1386549</guid>
		<description>[...] in 2007 Jeremiah Owyang made the role of community managers prominent as he published “The Four Tenants of the Community Manager.” . In his report he says, “We found the following four job requirements: Community Advocate, Brand [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in 2007 Jeremiah Owyang made the role of community managers prominent as he published “The Four Tenants of the Community Manager.” . In his report he says, “We found the following four job requirements: Community Advocate, Brand [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fashion</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1363652</link>
		<dc:creator>fashion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1363652</guid>
		<description>It is a very good personalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a very good personalty.</p>
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		<title>By: projekt</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1356888</link>
		<dc:creator>projekt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 02:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1356888</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;projekt...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...]Community Management Education (and Certs) a Sound Investment &#8211;Yet Experience Trumps All &#171; Web Strategy by Jeremiah Owyang &#124; Social Media, Web Marketing[...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>projekt&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...]Community Management Education (and Certs) a Sound Investment &#8211;Yet Experience Trumps All &laquo; Web Strategy by Jeremiah Owyang | Social Media, Web Marketing[...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Are you heading up a creek without a community manager?</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1333264</link>
		<dc:creator>Are you heading up a creek without a community manager?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1333264</guid>
		<description>[...] brands such as Campbell Soup Co. The position from a corporate standpoint is only growing in popularity, and with the openness of the social Web, it is easy to know whom to cherry pick should you need [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] brands such as Campbell Soup Co. The position from a corporate standpoint is only growing in popularity, and with the openness of the social Web, it is easy to know whom to cherry pick should you need [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marie Connelly is not a Guru. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Yes, You Can Teach Community Management -</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1328155</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie Connelly is not a Guru. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Yes, You Can Teach Community Management -</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1328155</guid>
		<description>[...] to the new training program have been fairly mixed, at least within our own little bubble. Jeremiah Owyang and Connie Benson (who&#8217;s an instructor in the program) have some good posts about why this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the new training program have been fairly mixed, at least within our own little bubble. Jeremiah Owyang and Connie Benson (who&#8217;s an instructor in the program) have some good posts about why this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Industry certification in Social Media? Not a bad idea, but not necessary in my view &#124; Customer Service Through Social Channels &#38; The Customer Experience</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1323299</link>
		<dc:creator>Industry certification in Social Media? Not a bad idea, but not necessary in my view &#124; Customer Service Through Social Channels &#38; The Customer Experience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1323299</guid>
		<description>[...] Owyang recently posted on this topic. I agree with what he wrote, but believe that certification is needed to achieve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Owyang recently posted on this topic. I agree with what he wrote, but believe that certification is needed to achieve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Top Five Community Management Blog Posts: December 2011 &#124; Dave Cayem</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1321514</link>
		<dc:creator>Top Five Community Management Blog Posts: December 2011 &#124; Dave Cayem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1321514</guid>
		<description>[...] 1. Community Management Education (and Certs) a Sound Investment –Yet Experience Trumps All [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1. Community Management Education (and Certs) a Sound Investment –Yet Experience Trumps All [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Cooke</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1321258</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Cooke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1321258</guid>
		<description>I admire new strategies in learning. Learning from just the four corners of a room is not actually enough. There are different kinds of people who need different kinds of learning environment. And experience leads to that. Thanks for the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire new strategies in learning. Learning from just the four corners of a room is not actually enough. There are different kinds of people who need different kinds of learning environment. And experience leads to that. Thanks for the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Why do a Community Manager Training Course? &#171; Community Management</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1316327</link>
		<dc:creator>Why do a Community Manager Training Course? &#171; Community Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1316327</guid>
		<description>[...] Jeremiah Owyang covered the pro’s and con’s of the certification aspect of the Community Manager Training courses. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jeremiah Owyang covered the pro’s and con’s of the certification aspect of the Community Manager Training courses. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kathysierra</title>
		<link>http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2011/12/19/community-management-education-a-sound-investment-yet-experience-trumps-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1310908</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathysierra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/?p=10978#comment-1310908</guid>
		<description>I have mixed feelings on this.  On one hand, certifications can be a useful way to evaluate someone&#039;s overal *knowledge* on a topic, but unless there is a practical component to the exam, even the best certification is still assessing the least-useful attribute of a professional: knowledge. The way &quot;experts&quot; are defined by those who study expertise is this: experts are what they DO. In other words, given a representative task in a given domain, experts are those who consistently/reliably *make better choices*. The fact that experts do know more about the domain is not what matters when looking for predictors of performance.

But in this domain, I have a bigger concern. In certifying &quot;community managers&quot; or other forms of social media professionals, there is an implicit and overwhelming assumption that &quot;social/community&quot; is THE way to solve problems for a company including &quot;engagement&quot;, for example. It starts looking more and more like a &quot;when you are a certified hammer professional, EVERYTHING looks like a nail scenario. Then you end up with the problem we are already seeing so much of today: companies out-social/community/engaging their competitors, when they SHOULD be focusing on fixing the reason they even need theses things in order to compete (assuming the business is not itself a social media product or service).

The thought experiment is something like, &quot;assume a future where every one of your competitors has an equally awesome, certified, capable community manager/social media 
strategist. NOW what? And what if &quot;increased engagement&quot; is not what the company -- let alone their users -- really needs? As a user, my attention is not scalable. My ability to engage is not scalable. The companies that may &quot;win&quot; in the near future are those who realize this, and make products, services, and marketing that frees my attention for doing things I love to do rather than competes to attract it back to the company. For example. I do not want to spend time &quot;engaging&quot; with Apple... I want to spend time editing in Final Cut Pro. And when I DO engage, it is with a local non-Apple community user group.

Any of use can look around our home and professional workspace and name some of our most beloved and most-used products, and realize that we would nearly kill for some of the things we own that come from brands with which we have never engaged. If you look to most hobbies, for instance, the communities we are involved with are NOT from a specific brand but from the far more compelling context in which those brands are used. I might attend a snowboarding club, not a Volcom group. A photography club, not an Adobe meeting (though Adobe might sponsor part of it, and it might even BE an unofficial Adobe user group). A horsemanship club not an Astund saddle-maker group. A maker/DIY group, not the Radio
 Shack club.

Not that a brand cannot use community in this way -- to support the bigger, cooler context in which their products are used as opposed to trying to suck users into engaging &quot;with the brand&quot; (whatever that actually means). Sooner than later, we must recognize that users are not All About Us, and if we deeply care about our users, we will not try to seduce them into spending more time with us. The best community manager, in my opinion, is the one who asks, &quot;what the hell are you doing clicking around our site and posting content when you SHOULD be out there kicking ass USING our product...&quot; and then putting all of their resources into enabling users to do just that. 

So, yes, I fear that too much emphasis on certifying social media professionals (including community managers) will only harden the view that user engagement is about engaging with US / the brand, rather than the far more sustainable and user-healthy view that users have far better uses for their precious time, including actually USING our products and services to do something amazing *for themselves.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have mixed feelings on this.  On one hand, certifications can be a useful way to evaluate someone&#8217;s overal *knowledge* on a topic, but unless there is a practical component to the exam, even the best certification is still assessing the least-useful attribute of a professional: knowledge. The way &#8220;experts&#8221; are defined by those who study expertise is this: experts are what they DO. In other words, given a representative task in a given domain, experts are those who consistently/reliably *make better choices*. The fact that experts do know more about the domain is not what matters when looking for predictors of performance.</p>
<p>But in this domain, I have a bigger concern. In certifying &#8220;community managers&#8221; or other forms of social media professionals, there is an implicit and overwhelming assumption that &#8220;social/community&#8221; is THE way to solve problems for a company including &#8220;engagement&#8221;, for example. It starts looking more and more like a &#8220;when you are a certified hammer professional, EVERYTHING looks like a nail scenario. Then you end up with the problem we are already seeing so much of today: companies out-social/community/engaging their competitors, when they SHOULD be focusing on fixing the reason they even need theses things in order to compete (assuming the business is not itself a social media product or service).</p>
<p>The thought experiment is something like, &#8220;assume a future where every one of your competitors has an equally awesome, certified, capable community manager/social media<br />
strategist. NOW what? And what if &#8220;increased engagement&#8221; is not what the company &#8212; let alone their users &#8212; really needs? As a user, my attention is not scalable. My ability to engage is not scalable. The companies that may &#8220;win&#8221; in the near future are those who realize this, and make products, services, and marketing that frees my attention for doing things I love to do rather than competes to attract it back to the company. For example. I do not want to spend time &#8220;engaging&#8221; with Apple&#8230; I want to spend time editing in Final Cut Pro. And when I DO engage, it is with a local non-Apple community user group.</p>
<p>Any of use can look around our home and professional workspace and name some of our most beloved and most-used products, and realize that we would nearly kill for some of the things we own that come from brands with which we have never engaged. If you look to most hobbies, for instance, the communities we are involved with are NOT from a specific brand but from the far more compelling context in which those brands are used. I might attend a snowboarding club, not a Volcom group. A photography club, not an Adobe meeting (though Adobe might sponsor part of it, and it might even BE an unofficial Adobe user group). A horsemanship club not an Astund saddle-maker group. A maker/DIY group, not the Radio<br />
 Shack club.</p>
<p>Not that a brand cannot use community in this way &#8212; to support the bigger, cooler context in which their products are used as opposed to trying to suck users into engaging &#8220;with the brand&#8221; (whatever that actually means). Sooner than later, we must recognize that users are not All About Us, and if we deeply care about our users, we will not try to seduce them into spending more time with us. The best community manager, in my opinion, is the one who asks, &#8220;what the hell are you doing clicking around our site and posting content when you SHOULD be out there kicking ass USING our product&#8230;&#8221; and then putting all of their resources into enabling users to do just that. </p>
<p>So, yes, I fear that too much emphasis on certifying social media professionals (including community managers) will only harden the view that user engagement is about engaging with US / the brand, rather than the far more sustainable and user-healthy view that users have far better uses for their precious time, including actually USING our products and services to do something amazing *for themselves.&#8221;</p>
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