Some clarity needed

32 Responses to “Some clarity needed”

I know this goes against Forrester’s rules, but previews or short snippets of your reports would be greatly appreciated. Give us insight on how you do research and what you present to the big guys, because you’re now a big fish. Anyone can walk around and do what you’re doing and having a ball on Twitter, your talent has always been piecing it all together, making predictions based on cold hard facts and always being down to earth.
My advice: blog less and when you do blog make sure it is quality work. Stick to Twitter for the chit chat, but save your blog for you.



Posted by Stefan Constantinescu on December 20th, 2007 at 8:25 am

I believe that you haven’t lost direction, and I don’t think you are hollow nor misleading. I feel that you have just presented a different view. No, it may not always be relevant to what people are interested or intrgued about.
Whether this is in your goal or path, professionally or personally, you simply opened a new thread of discussion. This is something where you have exceeded. Agree or disagree is irrelevant, if the conversation continues. And conversation is at the core of community.
I do agree with Stefan though, that Twitter is a good forum for chat and the blog needs to continue to illustrate the quality it has over the past.



Posted by Jennifer D. on December 20th, 2007 at 8:47 am

Not to blow smoke up your ass here, but of the 100+ blogs I read on a regular basis, yours is the among the only ones that consistently have insightful commentary, discussion and content on social media and community. There are a lot of great thinkers out there, but it’s nice to see someone take a bit of a step beyond parroting “join the conversation” and look at the data, the strategies and the tools in as much depth as you do.
I’m also unclear on when being a blogger started meaning that you had to act at the whim of the entire blogosphere. Calling you shallow for explaining how you got popular on Twitter, berating Marc Cuban not adding any more friends on Facebook - petty and unproductive.
Bottom line is that you can’t please everyone. Keep providing great links, great research and great insight to your audience. Keep starting discussions. Keep building the community.
If you’re looking for something to improve, then I agree with Stefan’s suggestion. I’d love to see more of the data cited, if you’re able.



Posted by Ryan Anderson on December 20th, 2007 at 9:26 am

I posted the following comment Shel, but it may have been processed as spam, so I’ll post it here.
‘game the conversation by having inanimate objects join in’.
Then let me ask you this. Will AI machines ever be social? Why or why not? Will they have conversations?
What actually constitutes a machine? What if it is several physically-separate machines coalescing into one personality and humans are interacting with it?
You say ‘Brands are inanimate intangible things. They are contrivances intended to make you feel some sort of emotion about a company or it’s icons.’ Keyword: intended.
Perhaps the whole idea of brand is changing? I am getting a feeling that it’s not brands that will drive peoples emotions, it is people that will drive their own emotions from their perception of everything in the social web, which will have myriad components (this sentence seems sort of abstract).
But you are right in a way. Social web innately has that ‘emotional’ component which people get from being social. But people interacting with people doesn’t have to be social. Infact it can be like people interacting with machines. I really see the lines between AI and humans becoming blurry.
I will follow a person on Twitter for whatever reason. I, personally, may also follow a computer or an android or cyborg if I like what they have to say and I feel like I can interact with them.
Does it come down to the issue of interaction? Is brand a one way thing? Maybe we’ll have personalized brands that adapt to our thinking patterns (lets ignore privacy and legal issues here). Maybe it can be like medicine, which is become personalized. Maybe i WILL have to be social with the brand, which in turn will adapt to me automatically, just like i’d have to interact with a doctor to get my genome mapped out and have personalized medicine catered to my unique physiology. The reason I’d interact directly with the brand is because it will eventually not need an ‘operator’, like a doctor for personalized medicine, to understand me. A doctor will have to map me out, whereas the machine will do the mapping on its own.
All these discussions are all becoming too semantic, and we need to truly understand deeper issues at work here such as understanding what a brand is, what it will be, and why people use the social web now and how it will be different later. Great discussion. rock on!
________-
yeh well Jeremiah you know about this stuff and the politics of it a lot more than I sure do. But all I know is you can’t cater to the needs of everyone, ever. Not even Gandhi or Benjamin Franklin could, but as long as we all benefit from the discussions and increase our intelligence and make great connections, then it’s all good.
Sorry I write these long posts, but I need to try twice as hard to understand this, because I really don’t wanna be lagging in understanding it. You may yell at me on facebook for it and I’ll understand.



Posted by Azam Khan on December 20th, 2007 at 9:34 am

Jeremiah: From my perspective, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
As far as settling into your new role, I do agree with one point that Shel raised–not getting too close to your clients. I think it’s a balancing act. I also know that you can indeed be very successful bringing your community background into the corporate world. That perspective is definitely needed. Many companies just aren’t to the point where they are ready to have open conversations. And worse yet, many people within those companies have the flawed perspective that communities are pre-formed groups of people they can push their messaging out to. That thinking needs to change, and folks like you can be a big part of that.
Balance is an important part of what I do as a corporate blogger. I have Dell folks either wanting to engage in conversations, or who want to influence some of the content we publish on one side, and customers on the other.It’s not always an easy balance to find.
Truthfully, now that Direct2Dell is pretty well-established, I spend even more time working internally to evangelize how to engage the right way. In internal conversations, I still see lots of the old way of thinking—and I work for a company that supposedly “gets it.” Dell has made progress, but we still have a long way to go.
In my view, it underscores just how much work needs to be done in the corporate space. Getting companies to have more open conversations is the right goal–I’m convinced that direct conversations between a company’s employees and their customers will be key in the future. But we’re still in the early stages.



Posted by Lionel Menchaca on December 20th, 2007 at 9:40 am

Hey Jeremiah, Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of being an industry analyst! Some might consider it as having gone over to the dark side. Som who loved you before will criticize you now. There will even be personal attacks from time to time. I try to learn and adapt from those that share their opinions and insight constructively.
The following works for me: remain objective - be as transparent as possible - establish balanced / coherent / defensible positions - be reasonably responsive to blog readers - become an effective advisor to clients and an industry advocate as needed.
Not enough analysts (and analyst firms) are as participatory as they should be… from what I can tell, you’re learning and adapting as well.



Posted by Mike Gotta on December 20th, 2007 at 9:44 am

Hey Jeremiah, I can see both sides of this argument. At the end of the day you were publicly hashing out issues you have at work - this is your professional blog and you should be free to write about whatever you want on it, especially as it pertains to your profession. I guess what turns Shel and these off is the discussion of how marketers can use social tools to market better (sell more) - as opposed to how can they use these social tools to be more social and add value to their customers lives (sell more but by increasing customer satisfaction). So I guess it’s just a matter of couching the discussion in the proper context.
Should brands twitter? Probably not, but should a company use twitter to reach its customers on a new level in order to add value to their lives and add value to the company itself? Of course (assuming it makes sense).
Just my two pennies.
-W



Posted by Wayne Mulligan on December 20th, 2007 at 10:06 am

Jeremy,
The moment you will pause and think if you should blog about it or use it is as paid for content in a Forrester report you will know where your true priorities are.
Perhaps you already passed that moment (several times). If that is the case, perhaps giving up blogging and working for Forrester is the most honest way to both audiences.
Although I for one would miss your insights (for free!).



Posted by Marc Drees on December 20th, 2007 at 10:06 am

I think it’s to be expected that this blog would reflect the ideas and projects that you’re involved with in your career on a daily basis. I do have a question about the following quote.
“…my mission (the web strategy one, as well as the one at the day job) is to help companies use the web to connect with customers.”
Do your clients share your definition of the word ‘connect’? To me connect means creating real relationships and communities. This is something that happens from person to person and not person to company or marketer.
My perception, which may be wrong, is that marketers want Forrester’s help to target groups of people so the marketers can sell their products to those people. That’s quite a bit different than connecting with them.



Posted by Rob Safuto on December 20th, 2007 at 10:11 am

Jeremiah.. Jeff Nolan and I were chatting yesterday and he happened to say, “look, I blog for myself, no one else. Its great that people read me and great that folks engage in conversation but even if they didn’t I’d still blog.”
You should continue to blog for you and no one else. If you say something others find interesting, great, if not, great!
As to your audience, marketers need to hear you, so do community owners… at the end of the day, no one and every one owns the customer relationship (no matter what an Account Executive would have you believe).



Posted by Steve Mann on December 20th, 2007 at 11:38 am

Jeremiah:
First, you need to have a personal point of view. That will cause controversy - and it should.
Second, for me the most important thing the client-side can understand - is that they are NOT in control of the community. If you can help clients understand that they get to participate - but not control - then you are doing good work for them.
Third - I don’t get twitter. I understand it - but I don’t get it. (Showing my age!)
Keep up the good work.
Tom O’B
http:\\humanvoice.wordpress.com



Posted by Tom O'Brien on December 20th, 2007 at 11:51 am

Trying thinking outside of the Twitter community, which is a highly insular subset of the valley. Twitter isn’t mainstream, but web strategy should be for most companies.
Otherwise, you’re just another TechCrunch.



Posted by Sean on December 20th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

My only complaint is that more and more of your aggregation stuff - cool links, news, etc. - ends up on Twitter.
Even though I’m an avid user myself, it’s hard to follow.



Posted by ian on December 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

The fact you would turn around and ask these questions of your readers is just proof that we’re reading the right person. Congrats to you for the introspection.
I’ve already written a reference to you on tomorrow’s post where I offer this general feedback. Since you’ve asked, I’ll give it here, too.
The recent migrations of conversations has been confusing to me. First, we’re asked to participate on your blog. Then we’re asked to participate on Twitter. Then there was a conversation that was better found on Facebook. It felt like a game … Where in the world will Jeremiah tell us to chat next. Maybe you have slightly different audiences in each tool. Maybe your audience migrates with you easily. Perhaps there are some (me) who are comfortable one place but confused when you ask me to move elsewhere for the engagement.
My two cents. I’m an avid reader and fan and will continue to be … wherever the conversation takes us.



Posted by Jason Falls on December 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Jeremiah
Like Ryan, I look at over 100 blogs per day and yours is probably the best on Web Strategy.
If you want my advice: do more of what you have been doing so well, bring over more of the Forrester-think when it adds value, challenge your readers to think more and don’t take the inevitable criticism that success attracts too seriously. You can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Keep up the good work.
Graham Hill
Independent CRM Consultant
Interim CRM Manager



Posted by Graham Hill on December 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

> I’ve been messing up
Not true. I enjoy your posts and you do a great job. Continually trying to say interesting things is pretty much impossible. Give yourself a break.



Posted by Web Watcher on December 20th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

Ryan and Graham are right. You can’t please everyone. Just keep presenting your POV and we’ll keep reading you every day. This is the best blog on community in overall quality, day after day after day. Keep going. Keep challenging us and we’ll keep reading you. I belong to Twitter but it’s not my thing. But I still enjoy reading what you have to say about it and other things.
You’re in prime position on my igoogle home page and you’re going to stay there!



Posted by margy on December 20th, 2007 at 5:41 pm

Soon you´ll see copy cats of your ways in other countries and languages…and we will advance much farther and much faster by being open and honest than when inside a walled garden. We, as in Social Media believers. Keep it up.



Posted by Al on December 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

Hey Jeremiah,
I agree with Jason Falls, above and second his congratulations on the introspection, and public introspection at that.
Look what a fascinating comment collection it created. It really is authentic and rich.
Just another fan,
Steve



Posted by Steve Ames on December 20th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

I’ve been finding the blog somewhat pretentious. Too much fluff. Too many buzzwords (fansumer? pebble people? right.)
Maybe thats just me though.



Posted by William on December 20th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

This is for Azam. I looked in both my filters and could not find your Comment. I would most certainly have posted it. Did you pass the Captcha test? You can email me at helisrael1@gmail.com



Posted by shel israel on December 20th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

I’ve been reading this blog for a couple years now, and I haven’t noticed any decline in quality. Maybe it’s because I’m coming from the agency/marketer side, but I’m also always trying to learn a ton as a consumer, and if anything I think the work with Forrester is starting to make certain posts even more insightful than they could have been otherwise. I say just keep blogging your heart out and write what moves you, which is what you’ve been telling others all along.



Posted by David Berkowitz on December 21st, 2007 at 7:42 am

I don’t think you’ve messed up, but I know “don’t take it personally” is easier said than done
The fact that you’re thinking about your perspective and whose interests you represent is great. I understand your day job requires you to represent marketing interests. I think what Shel Israel and other people might have been trying to do, is ask you to try to shift perspectives. Every time you represent a point of view (such as marketers) you risk NOT seeing other groups’ interests and possibly hurting them in the process (without intention to do so).
I teach PR, and I ask my students to be boundary spanners - to span the boundary of the organization, and be in between the organization and its publics, go in between the two cultures and mediate/translate them to each other. Another concept we use in PR scholarship is being the public’s *advocate* - so you get in the public’s shoes and try to represent their interests to your client.
I think this exercise of shifting perspectives can be very useful and in the long run can lead to socially responsible, ethical & successful marketing. Think about it, you’ve got to consider the “others’” perspectives, try to see things from their point of view and try to anticipate unintended consequences. So, on the issue of “should companies build their own communities,” think about it from a societal perspective, what happens if more and more public spaces become privately owned, what happens to the public sphere and freedom of speech? Would you want your young kids to hang out in a corporation’s virtual world? What kinds of values will they learn? Is it OK for the consumerist/marketing/corporate interest to dominate the public sphere? Is it OK for the public sphere to disappear, which is already happening? (All our “public” conversation spaces are owned by companies - and sooner or later, Beacon happens. Or controversial political videos are taken off YouTube…) What does this mean, how does it affect society? What kind of world does it create?
You, Jeremiah, are a very powerful person. You and the people you advise make a tremendous impact on society. Whether you realize or not, you do change the world (and it’s best to realize it and be reflective about it, as you are). With power comes responsibility. So, the basic question is: How do you want to change the world? What kind of world do you want to create?
(P.S. You’re a good person, and we all know it. Thank you for having the courage to let us witness your thinking & growth.)



Posted by Mihaela V on December 21st, 2007 at 10:13 am

I’m centralizing other feedback (and carefully reading everything written here, multiple times)
Jason Falls suggests that multiple mediums is “like driving lemmings”, thanks Jason, helpful.
http://www.socialmediaexplorer.com/2007/12/21/10-must-read-blogs-for-2008/



Posted by jeremiah_owyang on December 21st, 2007 at 10:13 am

Maybe you need some time off like all of us… But you won’t take it like all of us…



Posted by exaakax on December 21st, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Friends
Thanks SO much for giving this feedback. I’ve made a list of what I’ve heard from you.
The majority suggests to keep going, and do what I need to do.
I do want to acknowledge the feedback (I see some patterns) and want you to know I heard you.
-Insight to what Forrester is doing, cite more data. (my first reports are coming around, some of it will be shared)
-Keep blog quality high, save chatter for Twitter
-Minimize talking about Twitter on blog. Moving people in multiple tools is difficult, not everyone gets all the tools.
-Don’t get too close to clients. Find the balance between community and marketers
-Too many buzzwords and fluff.
-Be responsible and respectful of the power I have
-Blog for myself and stop trying to please everyone else
-Take some time off (I took some time off away from internet)



Posted by jeremiah_owyang on December 23rd, 2007 at 7:42 am

[...] few days ago, I asked in public how could I better improve myself. I received over 20 comments of commendations, (10 emails, or private message) and all of them were [...]



Posted by I heard you on December 23rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm

Jeremiah,
I think the most important thing is for you to keep your voice. You have a unique audience, not replicated by other bloggers. Lately there has been some critique about this, but I just hope you stay on the path of educating the non-koolaid drinkers and ignoring (rather not-servicing) the TechCrunch crowd. They have their (aforementioned) blogs already.
Looking forward to what 08 brings,
Nate



Posted by Nate Westheimer on December 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

Thanks Nate, I’m focused on the web decision maker and helping them make their jobs easier and websites better. I’m glad you see this.



Posted by jeremiah_owyang on December 26th, 2007 at 5:53 am

Jeremiah, I just read through all the comments and had to add my own. Your blog is great and is one of the only three i read on a regular basis although most times i don’t comment because i don’t feel i can add to the discussion in a significant way. But i have always and continue to respect your strategies and counsel and i know it is hard to also walk the fine line of client counsel while being objective. I agree with all of those who said you can not please everyone. Keep up the great work.



Posted by jennifer jones on December 26th, 2007 at 9:21 am

[...] Jeremiah Owyang has been over here, wearing a largely unnecessary hairshirt that nonetheless sets an excellent example for the rest of [...]



Posted by it’s nice to be nice to the nice « small dots on December 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

[...] strategy to this blog (which I feel is as much yours as it is mine) to improve. About a month ago, I asked for some feedback in a blog post (it was a very scary thing to do), and got a flurry of responses, I read each one [...]



Posted by A survey for the Web Strategist Blog on January 19th, 2008 at 6:22 am

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